that's just unbelievable, that those words came out of john mccain's mouth. >> is mccain bitter? i mean, mccain really went after him. it looked like hagel was caught off guard, like john, you and i have been friends for a long time. i did some good things for you. i supported you when i needed it. and you know i'm qualified for this job to be the head of the pentagon, defense secretary. it was almost like he was stunned by it. your thoughts. >> i think you're right. i think it was very personal. i was stunned by it, too. especially the way mccain kept pursuing it and pursuing it. clearly, john wanted chuck to say yes, i was wrong and you were right. and of course the verdict of history, as hagel tried to say, is still out on that. and frankly, in my view as a soldier, the surge had almost nothing to do with the actual increase in american troops. what it had to do was the coincidence of a number of things that were already moving in iraq. not least of which was the awakening. and it had to do with very frankly a general by the name of david petraeus taking advantage of this in o